{"id":27877,"date":"2025-03-17T11:48:21","date_gmt":"2025-03-17T06:18:21","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.tarshi.net\/inplainspeak\/?p=27877"},"modified":"2025-03-17T15:31:51","modified_gmt":"2025-03-17T10:01:51","slug":"in-plainspeak-march-2025-interview-we-have-questions","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.tarshi.net\/inplainspeak\/in-plainspeak-march-2025-interview-we-have-questions\/","title":{"rendered":"Interview – We Have Questions!"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

In the interview section of In Plainspeak<\/em> we tend to chat with an individual, who generously presents their thoughts and insights on the theme of the issue. This is generally based on some questions we ask this person. The questions come first.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

There are times when we bend the rules and draw on the walls. This is one of those times. We listened in on some of the chatter online on the subject of consent and we ended up with some questions. That is what you\u2019re getting here \u2013 a reverse interview, that ends with some questions for us all.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

One of the things that really stood out for us amidst the chatter is the voice of an octogenarian<\/a> that we stumbled upon on X. Avanti Nagral<\/a>, performance artist and entrepreneur, chats with her 89 year old aaji (grandmother), and here\u2019s a tiny excerpt:
Avanti: \u201cWhen it comes to sex, obviously some people do sex for babies but some people do it for pleasure.\u201d
Grandmother: \u201cNo. Mostly it is for pleasure, the outcome is a baby. \u2026 Consent is the first thing. And mutual consent.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We are thrilled to be able to begin with Avanti and her aaji because as we progress, listening in on other conversations and stories, it becomes necessary to hold on to practical wisdom laced with humour.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

There\u2019s so much being said out there, we\u2019re setting out some of it here, organised under four parts. Absolutely not representative of the whole, so the sum of these parts is still not all of anything! Let\u2019s go anyway!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Part 1 \u2013 Generally & typically<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Here\u2019s some typical consent-related content on some social media platforms from accounts across countries, regions and continents. This content does its best to squish the layered gello that is consent into manageable definitions. It involves some is and isn\u2019t, some yes and no, and \u2013 the human memory exercise favourite \u2013 acronyms.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

FII on X<\/a>: Consent is the most important factor when it comes to intimacy. Sex without consent is simply assault. Therefore, it is important that consent is communicated. #NoMeansNo”<\/p>\n\n\n\n

This post from letmeknowuk<\/a> deals with the significance and role of \u2018Yes\u2019: Consent is more than \u201cyes\u201d.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

From womensrights_news<\/a> we have, along with \u2018No\u2019, some \u2018Don\u2019t\u2019s and \u2018Not\u2019s\u2019 (don\u2019t like, don\u2019t feel, not comfortable, not today, etc.) It\u2019s not just the post that\u2019s key, it\u2019s the chatter in the comments from you and me. And some others, who are not you and not I. So \u2013 comments in response to this post include:
\u201cOh wow! Suddenly, a rapist will surely now understand that rape is wrong. All we need to do is tell them that no means no\u201d
\u201cIf a woman starts crying and says stuff like \u2018It’s not fair! I never get what I want!\u2019 sobbing uncontrollably and then refuses to talk to their partner for the next 2 or 3 days when her partner says no, Does that count?\u201d
This got 6 likes and lots of engagement, for example:
\u201cHey\u2026 This is about sex, not random shopping expeditions.\u201d
\u201cI was talking about sex, although it could be just about anything. And why should women have to ask permission to go shopping\u201d
\u201cI know that YOU don\u2019t care, James, because it\u2019s not happening to YOU!
Take your whataboutism and leave, stop invading women\u2019s space like this trying to make it about mEn, stop being so effing disrespectful.\u201d
\u201cyes I have girl friends that are manipulative like this and it\u2019s also sexual harassment\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

This is about when you could begin to feel that the chatter is lost in anger. In fact, the focus has become anger, all kinds of frustration, lots of binary thinking and complete confusion. See for example this post<\/a> on Threads:
\u201cI\u2019m not sure\u201d means no. \u201cI’m not ready\u201d means no. \u201cI don’t want to\u201d means no. \u201cPlease stop\u201d means no. Crying means no. Silence means no. Agreeing only after being pressured means no. The only thing that means yes is yes. Consent is not a negotiation\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

To which, one of the responses <\/a>is, \u201cThat’s not how consent works lol. You are not the my boss and I\u2019m not ur slave. You have to make it clear that you DO NOT consent for me to understand that you didn’t. Nobody is ur servant here\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So now, we’ve turned it into tick boxes. Pretty much like this clinical WHO post<\/a> on X:
\u201cConsent means actively agreeing to be sexual with someone.
It
✅ must be freely given
✅ must be explicit in words or actions
✅ must be specific to each act
✅ can be withdrawn at any time
Respect boundaries. Support survivors.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

#EndViolence against women and girls\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And for those who want to remember the concept of consent, what it is, or is not, just to, you know, get it right in the exam, we’ve got acronyms.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The account of Victim Services Toronto refers to the FRIES model of consent in this post<\/a>: <\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cThe FRIES model for consent was created by @plannedparenthood to help us understand all the important parts of consent\u2026
Consent should be:
Freely given
Reversible
Informed
Enthusiastic
Specific
\u2026 if a situation isn\u2019t hitting all the letters of FRIES, it\u2019s time to pause and check in\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

FRIES isn’t enough for you? Want it CRISP? We\u2019ve got you covered. Take a look at this<\/a> where folks have spent a great deal of effort and energy bringing forward a different context to consent \u2013 the environment and practices in the entertainment industry. \u201cWe\u2019ve been having a lot of internal discussions about the shortcomings of FRIES over the last year and a half, and we are excited to have a new acrostic definition for consent as it exists specifically in entertainment to share with you. CRISP!
Considered
Reversible
Informed
Specific
Participatory
We\u2019ve kept Reversible, Informed, and Specific because those three elements are important for real and performed intimacy, but we\u2019ve gotten rid of Freely Given and Enthusiastic and replaced them with Considered and Participatory.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So far we have tick boxes, acronyms, and attempts to simplify in standard textbook ways. Digging deeper, we find other aspects of consent, such as in this post<\/a> from the Joyful Heart Foundation which talks about consent and care, and on-going conversations, consent to be given freely, and consciously and that, not fighting is not consent.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Ready for the next bit?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Part 2 \u2013 Does Grok know? Or a new meaning to X-rated!<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

We asked Grok, \u201cWhat’s the talk around consent?\u201d Grok<\/a>, being \u201cyour cosmic guide, now accessible on grok.com, iOS, and Android.\u201d We met Grok on X, introduced <\/a>to us as \u201can AI assistant with a twist of humor and a dash of rebellion. X users have the ability to ask questions, get answers, and perform other tasks using Grok, an enhancement of X’s functions.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Grok said, \u201cThe concept of consent has been a hot topic lately, especially online. People are digging into what it means to give or get a clear \u201cyes\u201d or \u201cno\u201d in all kinds of situations \u2013 relationships, hookups, even everyday interactions. On X, the chatter\u2019s all over the place: some folks argue it\u2019s gotten too rigid, like you need a signed contract for everything, while others say it\u2019s about time we took it seriously to protect people from coercion or misunderstanding.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cBig debates pop off when it ties into stuff like age of consent laws\u2014think recent posts about whether 16 is too young or if 18\u2019s arbitrary\u2014or in gray areas like implied consent (e.g., does flirting mean you\u2019re down?). Then there\u2019s the cultural angle: some say consent\u2019s framed differently depending on where you\u2019re from, and that\u2019s clashing with globalized norms online.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

An aside \u2013 speaking to and of Grok, we\u2019ve got to remember something. The future includes some of what we\u2019ve always known. As this post tells us, \u201cadvanced AI models are learning to cheat.\u201d Not surprising. The human being is brilliant; like some other creatures in nature, has learnt to cheat over generations of competition and survival; has created AI, now leans into AI and wants AI to think for us. The brilliance of cheating, right or wrong being not in question, cannot escape AI. What does this mean when we lean into AI to understand, say, a concept like consent, beyond tick boxes? When does AI tell us how to deal with consent issues and some cheat fixes?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Back to X, where Rituparna Chatterjee @MasalaBai <\/a>speaks of comments from men on her posts regarding consent, such as, “when you marry you automatically give consent for sex”. As Rituparna goes on to say, “First, no you don’t. You still have to respect your spouse’s wish and no still means no. Second, this paints an accurate picture of why India is unsafe for women.”<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Comments to this post include:
\u201cThe man returns from a hectic official tour, finds his wife with her lover. Husband threatens to divorce or tell everybody about this living in that area. Wife threatens him with marital rape and tells him to cope\u201d
\u201cConsent for sex?
Den consent for kiss, for touch
Men will say consent for using his house, money, car, food
MARRIAGE is Commitment 2 love n care forever
Consent for sex in marriage is simply consent for love, already taken!
Being lovers it’s now ur duty 2 give love when needed\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

More? Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Part 3 \u2013 The laws and \u2013 us \u2013 the children of yesterday, today and tomorrow<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

This quick history <\/a>post on X from Agents of Ishq tells us that the law, in India had an age of consent only for girls, which was originally 10 years, and with amendments was raised over time to 12, and so on. Today as per POCSO, the age of consent is 18, and so, POCSO is considered a gender-neutral Act. This is explained well in this article<\/a> on the website of India Legal Live, \u201cWe did not have any age of consent for boys, and it was only in 2012 that our lawmakers woke up to the possibility of sexual abuse of minor boys. In 2012, a gender-neutral legislation was passed for the protection of children against sexual offences. POCSO fixed the age of consent for both boys as well as girls at 18.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Are we achieving the desired protection of children now? Point of View in this post<\/a> says, \u201cWhen we talk to children about consent, sex & sexuality, we want to be sure they understand what we’re saying. It’s important to know what a child is able to understand at their age & explain concepts that they can relate to.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And Hidden Pockets Collective on X in a post<\/a> from 2020 says, \u201cA country\u2019s laws regarding sex, sexual orientation, sexual consent, sexual and reproductive health, access to abortion services, and access to different types of contraceptives can often become autonomy-snatchers in the name of protecting children and adolescents. #Ageofconsent\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In this post<\/a>, Consent Educator Sarah Casper writes, \u201cWhen a child overhears us telling our friend, \u2018I really don’t have the energy to go, but I feel he’ll be mad if I don’t,\u2019 they’re learning to conceal the truth about their capacity and make decisions based on others’ emotions.\u201d And here<\/a>, Sarah points out, \u201cMost courses and workshops on teaching consent will emphasize what real consent is and what “counts” as consent. But this is setting our students up to exploit technicalities instead of embodying the skills for caring for their boundaries and desires alongside the boundaries and desires of others.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

United by attitude, in our part of the world AWARE India, says<\/a>, \u201cLessons in consent don’t have to focus on sex. Teach kids about consent as early as possible with daily situations and language. Show kids that they get to decide what happens to their bodies by letting them be the \u2018boss\u2019 of their body.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And now, the last part of this reverse interview connects to the beginning!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Part 4 \u2013 Love, sex, consent and \u2013 the older adult<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Since we began with aaji, here’s a less spoken about portion of the territory \u2013 consent and older adults. In this post<\/a>, Dementia UK says, \u201cSex can be a sensitive subject to discuss at any age, but talking about sex and consent is just as important for older people and those with #dementia. This article<\/a> provides an interesting look into how care homes navigate consent and sex between residents. Referring to a specific case, the article shares the experience of care home workers: \u201cIn the case of Frank and Mary, their adult offspring found their parents\u2019 increasingly intimate relationship disturbing. A meeting was called and the decision made to separate them \u2013 moving him to another floor.
\u201cIt destroyed her,\u201d Millie, then a young care worker at the home, tells the other participants. \u201cShe became really challenging. It was so cruel. We had no idea how to handle it. There was no training, no support. We failed them. It was awful, awful for everyone.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

What are the thoughts, and conversations if any, around this, in India? After all our older adults are born of our Indian culture. We went into Quora, where a user asked<\/a>, \u201cIs it okay to remarry at the age of 60? Being a pensioner, and being disagreeable by family members and relatives in India especially my daughter straightway refused and meet my would be.\u201d So here\u2019s consent flipped on its head. At age 60, your daughter doesn\u2019t give her consent to your desire to remarry. Oops. Anyway, we extracted portions from some wise and practical responses to this:
Maulana Oraf<\/a> \u2013 \u201cDestroying ur happiness to fuel other people’s egos is NOT the sign of a dutiful father. But Indian culture makes it seem like this. Like if a father is happy, he’s doing something wrong. This culture needs to stop!
I wish more seniors were like u so folks would be focusing on ourselves instead of mind screwing our kids 24\u20137\u2013365.\u201d
Mani Shankar <\/a>\u2013 \u201cIt is definitely more than okay to remarry at the age of 60. Family members including daughter will have their own reasons to disagree with your decision but that must not deter you from implementing your decision.\u201d
Rajiv Sethi <\/a>\u2013 \u201cThere are two main reasons for the resistance to your marrying again. One is that you are being made a fool by the person marrying you, and the second is the fear of losing the inheritance that you would bequeath to your family.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A greater variety of voices, many of them honest and powerful enough to blow you away, emerged in a 2022 study that we discovered. It\u2019s called \u201cLove in the Later Years\u2026<\/a>\u201d: Perceptions of Sex and Sexuality in Older Indian Adults \u2013 a Qualitative Exploration<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mrs. L (72 years) \u2013 \u201cYou really expect us to talk about sex! An old woman talks about sexuality instead of spirituality and prayers \u2013 how will people around me take it?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mrs. M (64 years) \u2013 \u201cWe are expected to always remain supportive and good. Why is that? Because society expects us. What are our sexual needs? Nobody has asked. I am glad that at this age finally someone wanted to know about my experiences!\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mr. P (70 years) \u2013 \u201cI have always seen my parents and grandparents move away from worldly pleasures when they aged. I considered that possibly thinking about sex at this age is bad. Somehow, even though I enjoyed sex, in some corner of my mind it did not feel right.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mrs. P (65 years) – \u201cMy doctor was just dismissive. She said that at this age I should go for pilgrimage and read scriptures. Sexuality should be the last thing on my list.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Referring to the LGBTQIA+ community, the authors say they are \u201cnearly invisible in the popular media and health discourse in India. They share the dual brunt of ageism and gender-based discrimination. This can be addressed by putting together sexual health and general issues related to wellbeing, training in sexual health among physicians, and continuous and holistic care.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

These conversations are not few and far between. Here\u2019s more from another article<\/a>:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cAsserting one\u2019s right to security and companionship may be legally acceptable, but for scores of elderly\u2014especially women\u2014a relationship in their twilight years still remains a taboo in society. Cultural stigma and their associated role as nurturers and caregivers keep them from making independent choices.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Manimekalia (not her real name), in her 70s, who lost her husband to a heart attack \u2013 “My counsellor suggested that I try to find a companion. I feel it isn\u2019t such a bad idea, but I cannot dare speak to my family about it.”<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Sadhana Savagave who \u2018faced strong opposition from her two children, who felt that she need not seek support outside\u2019 \u2013 \u201cLoneliness can hit anyone at any time. It\u2019s a lot more pervasive than people think.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Madhav Damle, who has founded a matchmaking service for older adults called Happy Seniors \u2013 \u201cWe saw that if a senior citizen lost their spouse before or at the age of 60, they had a whole decade or more to go on. And they have to do so without a companion.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

As the author of the article writes, \u201cKolkata-based consultant psychiatrist Dr Neelanjana Paul says many children are happy to connect their old parents to prayer groups, sports clubs, and senior homes but don\u2019t extend the same sensitivity when they want to find love or companionship.\u201d Dr Paul herself says, \u201cThis is a fundamental need in all of us. Depriving someone \u2013 especially in their old age \u2013 of this right isn\u2019t just unfair, it is also cruel.\u201d
Ah. Consent. Now, do you have any questions? We have three for you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

    \n
  1. If consent is more complicated than tick boxes and acronyms, do we need a different starting point to approach this concept? Suggestions anyone?
    This is a big one. At In Plainspeak, we\u2019d start with integrity of thought and behaviour. How do you practise this? Before you begin to teach it?<\/em><\/li>\n<\/ol>\n\n\n\n
      \n
    1. Would you suggest we learn about consent from AI? Why? Or why not?
      We say No \u2013 because even learning machines learn from us, and we\u2019re not sure what we\u2019re teaching them is good for them or us.<\/em><\/li>\n<\/ol>\n\n\n\n
        \n
      1. What is it about the concept of consent that runs through everything, for everybody, no matter the age or the situation? What does this tell us?
        We think it is respect and reflection. What say you?<\/em><\/li>\n<\/ol>\n\n\n\n

        Cover Image by Pixabay <\/a>on Pexel<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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