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| Issue 2, 2009 |
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Issue 2, 2009
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Interview
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The Woman Question
Please tell us about Naripokkho?
When did it start? Where did the
need for such an organization
arise from?
Naripokkho was founded in May 1983. A group of us
Bangladeshi women engaged in various capacities with
questions of social change and development agreed at the
end of a three day workshop on the need for an organised
space within which the ‘woman question’ could be raised,
debated, analysed and addressed without prejudice or
dogma. At the time the ‘woman question’ was largely
relegated to a residual category of social welfare and
development or at best it was a polemical gesture on the
sidelines of party politics.
Bangladesh was not even 12 years old; it was still evolving
both politically and economically with few women visibly
participating. One exception being the hundreds of women
recruited to serve the mission of rural reconstruction and
development, which was by and large implemented by
international and national NGOs supported by foreign aid.
Many international organizations accompanied the large
influx of aid and assistance that was given to the newly
independent Bangladesh by the international community.
This was a world unto itself, by no means homogenous
but generally characterized by a motivation to rebuild the
war torn country and help the poor. It is broadly in this
context, that we felt the need for a ‘third view’ on the
woman question: one that would be based on the different
realities and lived experiences of Bangladeshi women.
Discrimination was the first fundamental in articulating a
new position where women would speak for themselves,
rejecting both the charitable view of social organizations
and political parties as well as the instrumentalist view
of developmwent agencies; a position that would clearly
align itself with the notions of freedom, dignity and
equality. For many, including in the women’s movement
such an articulation was too radical and violated norms of
propriety appropriate to the nationalist construct of the
Bengali woman.
Yes, it must have seemed radical then.
What were the reactions? What
were your experiences with the
women’s movement in Bangladesh?
If I am to speak of my experience of the women’s movement
in Bangladesh then it is primarily the experience I have had
as a member of Naripokkho. Personally, the first shock I
had took place within a few months of forming Naripokkho
when a number of women commented on our very first
slogan “nari shomaj rukhey darao” (women resist!). “It is too
belligerent,” they said.
The second major shock came in 1985 when a nationwide
movement was being waged against violence against
women. I was shocked at how leaders of the women’s
movement put forward ‘important men’ as spokespersons
in public meetings. I sensed an apprehension or fear that
the movement must not appear to be against men! This
was difficult for me to digest, when I felt strongly that the
movement should have a female face and a female voice. I
can cite so many more examples of encountering what was
a combination of social conservatism and a general lack of
analysis of violence against women as a phenomenon based
on deep rooted cultural beliefs about the inferiority of
women and the unequal power relations women and men
are embedded in. This has definitely changed over the years.
The ‘mainstream’, if I may use this term as a shorthand for
the more established women’s organisations, has since
engaged in the analysis, and at least as far as violence against
women is concerned, the language of the movement has
shifted to reflect a more systemic understanding of unequal
gender relations and its ideological implications. We still
have problems with the manner in which the issue is
presented at times, but we have sufficient common ground
to work together in the fight against violence against
women.
Please give us some examples of
how the language of the women’s
movement has shifted in addressing
violence against women.
Referring to a woman who has been raped as “dhorshita”,
which literally translates in to ‘the raped one’, makes the
rape an attribute of her character and identity. We prefer
to use “dhorshoner sheekar nari” which means a woman who
has been subjected to rape. The rape is clearly external
to her; it is a crime that has been committed against her.
This distinction in language makes no difference to the
legal prosecution against the perpetrator, but it signals a
different message as to whose burden it is. We know that
in most societies women carry the burden of rape. It is
imposed on her by society as well as her near and dear
ones, and she herself internalises a sense of shame, guilt
and worthlessness. Shifting the language we use is part of
the struggle to change that.
Similarly referring to sexual assault and rape as “shombhrom
hani or izzat hani”, which means loss of chastity or honour
of the woman, her family and the nation, not only detracts
from rape as a crime but also fails to place the burden of
dishonour on the perpetrator. Even war crimes such as the
rapes committed by the Pakistan army in 1971 during our
freedom struggle are often talked about in terms of “amader
ma boner shombhrom hani” meaning the loss of honour of our
mothers and sisters.
There is a tendency by even educated and socially aware
women and men to use the term “maa-bon” (mothers-sisters)
to refer to women. Referring to women as “maa-bon”
is symptomatic of a ‘protectionist’ approach to women
and denies them their identity as fellow citizens. The
politics of language has thus acquired great importance to
us in Naripokkho.
Has there been a transition in the
issues that the women’s movement in
Bangladesh has engaged with so far
or in the approaches used?
In 1987 when we started a discussion on reproductive
rights, the ‘mainstream’ which was configured at the time
as Oikkoboddho Nari Shomaj (United Women’s Society), a
coalition of nearly 20 women’s organisations, refused to
include it in their list of demands. Reproductive health
and even reproductive rights is now very much on the
mainstream agenda. The involvement with the ICPD
process contributed greatly to that change.
In 1991 when Naripokkho organised the first meeting of
women’s organisations with sex workers, there was a curious
response. Some of the women leaders were surprised how
alike we looked! It was another 8 years before a show of
solidarity between women’s organisations and sex workers
fighting eviction threats could be achieved. This too had to
be carefully crafted so that we spoke of the rights of sex
workers as citizens and we spoke of their human rights, but
as an organisation we avoided articulating a position on sex
work itself.
What is the women’s movements
engagement with issues of
sexuality?
The engagement with issues of sexuality has not yet
acquired a place in the agenda of the women’s movement
in Bangladesh. Even in my own organisation Naripokkho
we have for the longest time relegated it to the occasional
discussion or spurts of heightened activism as happened
during the movement against the eviction of sex workers.
Of course there has been a sustained effort on the part
of Naripokkho to not only express solidarity with sex
workers but to extend concrete support as in facilitating
the formation of Ulka, the first sex workers organisation in
Bangladesh, and Shonghoti, an alliance of NGOs to support
the human rights of sex workers. Naripokkho continues
to extend support through Shonghoti although it has long
since stepped aside from a leadership role.
A more sustained effort is being made now within
Naripokkho to integrate issues of sexuality and sexual rights
on a broader frame and enhance our own understanding of
rights work. Naripokkho organised a special workshop on
Narir Jouno Jibon o Odhikar Bodh (Woman’s Sexual Life and
Sense of Rights) at the 3rd National Conference of Women’s
Organisations held in January 2008. This workshop
generated huge interest among the representatives of
more than 550 women’s organisations who participated
in the conference. We have plans to take the discussion
forward with Doorbar (the national network of women’s
organisations) members in order to build a broad based
activism around sexual rights issues.
The students of Jahangir Nagar University have led a ten
year long movement against sexual harassment in campus
and in May 2009 won a major victory in another landmark
judgement from the High Court whereby government has
been instructed to enact appropriate legislation and till
then ensure that employers and educational institutions
abide by the guidelines issued. Women’s organisations
expressed their solidarity with this movement, and in
fact the first initiative towards a policy to address sexual
harassment was jointly taken by Naripokkho and Women
for Women in 1998 soon after the first agitation against
sexual harassment by students at the University of Dhaka.
Please tell us about the historic
moments including the slogan
‘My Body, My Decision’ in the
international women’s day
campaign in 1994 and the landmark
judgement in 1999 declaring
evictions of sex workers as illegal.
The slogan “shoreer amaar, shiddhanto amaar” (My Body, My
Decision) was initially used to give expression to our work
on reproductive rights and as a statement about the right to
bodily integrity. We decided to go public with the slogan in
March 1994. During 1993-94 Naripokkho had under the
dynamic leadership of Nasreen Huq engaged intensively
with the ICPD process, both the inter-governmental
process as well as the NGO activities and at all levels, i.e.
international, regional, national and local (grass roots)
levels. It seemed like an appropriate opportunity to go
public with the slogan. The backlash was predictable.
Journalists asked snidely if we were promoting “free sex”.
Nasreen retorted on one occasion, “…it simply means I
will decide who I will sleep with and when”.
The High Court verdict on the writ petition filed by
a number of organisations including Naripokkho to
challenge the eviction of the brothels in Tanbazaar and
Nimtali in Narayanganj was a landmark judgement in that
it declared the eviction illegal and recognised sex work as
an occupation. However, the verdict in itself meant little
for the hundreds of displaced women and children as the
verdict did not include reinstatement of the brothel and its
residents and made no specific provision for enforcement.
It was undoubtedly a moral victory and subsequently the
verdict was used to pre-empt further evictions. Eviction
threats in Patuakhali, Jessore, Tangail, etc could be thwarted
because of the mobilisation of Doorbar members who felt
that the verdict strengthened their position in claiming
protection from local administration and police.
However, in my opinion the major gain was made during
the six weeks of 24 hours activism when the print media
provided front page coverage and the term “jouna kormi”
(sex worker) became common currency instead of the
traditionally used derogatory term “potita” (the fallen one).
During this time women and human rights activists marched
together with sex workers, held demonstrations in front of
the office of the Inspector General of Police, Department
of Social Welfare and the United Nations resident mission,
walked in to government offices and held meetings and
press conferences. The mobilisation was unprecedented.
A total of 86 non-government organisations working on
women’s rights, human rights, development, etc formed
Shonghoti, an alliance to support the human rights of sex
workers.
It is during this movement that Naripokkho made its
acquaintance with inter-sex groups, in particular the group
that called itself Badhon Hijra Shongho. I think it changed
the face of the women’s movement to some extent, or at
least a part of the women’s movement. Who were these
bold and uninhibited women at the head of the march? I
would like to believe that they made it possible for many
of us to also be a little less inhibited in public spaces. Most
importantly for us it gave meaning to the term sexual
diversity and at least for Naripokkho it has changed forever
our idea of who we are. Joya1 and Kotha2 are now part of
every thing we do and every event we organise.
Naripokkho was forced to engage in some self-examination
when Badhon Hijra Shongho applied for membership in
Doorbar, the national network of women’s organisations
initiated by Naripokkho. The decision to include inter-sex
people in the network was another watershed in the history
of the Bangladesh women’s movement. This happened prior
to the 2nd National Conference of Women’s organisations
in 2002 at the end of an interesting debate about whether
a hijra organisation could be identified as a women’s
organisation or not. Joya asked, “If I identify with being a
woman, who are you to tell me I am not?” Both ‘sex’ and
‘gender’ had to be redefined….
Please tell us about the challenges
you faced in the inclusion of
the rights of sex workers in the
dialogue on sexual rights for
women.
In fact, for us the issue of sex workers rights preceded any
organised dialogue on sexual rights for women. Discussions
on sex work and sex workers facilitated the opening of that
space. The resistance to the inclusion of the rights of sex
workers in the women’s movement agenda came primarily
from people, including women’s groups, who considered
sex work to be immoral and a public health hazard. Views
about what constituted ‘rehabilitation’ were at two opposite
ends; for most rehabilitation meant a sewing machine and at
best marriage whereas sex workers articulated clearly that
rehabilitation could be nothing short of social acceptance.
Whether sex work could be described as work was another
major point of debate.
In 1997 the Kandupotti brothel in Dhaka was evicted by
a horde of property speculators in the garb of religious
sanctity. Prior to the eviction Mahbooba Mahmood Leena,
another founder member of Naripokkho, and others had
visited the brothel to learn about the conditions of women
in sex work. During these visits they made the acquaintance
of Momotaz a senior sex worker in the brothel. When the
first eviction threats were made Momotaz along with others
rushed to Naripokkho with a card that Leena had given them
should they ever need to or want to contact us. Although
Naripokkho members responded immediately, it was too
late. The Kandupotti brothel had been demolished.
Naripokkho organised protests and press conferences
against the eviction and invited other organisations to
come and express their solidarity. Three organisations,
Bangladesh Women’s Health Coalition, Nari Maitree and
CARE responded. Together with them Naripokkho started
monthly meetings with the evicted sex workers to identify
possible interventions. Naripokkho provided Momotaz
with a year long internship which was supported by
contributions from the Naripokkho membership.
This year long internship made it possible for Momotaz to
work closely with Naripokkho and learn about organisation
building. During this year Momotaz worked closely with
Leena who was at the time heading a project to support the
formation and establishment of Doorbar. They travelled
together to visit Doorbar members in many different parts
of Bangladesh. Samia Afrin and Jahanara Khatun, both
members of Naripokkho and at the time employed in the
Network Project held weekly meetings with Momotaz and
her erstwhile colleagues from Kandupotti. The result at
the end of the year was the formation of Ulka, the first
sex workers organisation in Bangladesh. In 1999 when the
troubles began in Tanbazaar, it was Momotaz who rushed
to Naripokkho and urged us to get involved.
The inclusion of Ulka in Doorbar Network in 2000 was
the first milestone in this regard. Doorbar members had
to be convinced that a women’s organisation could not be
excluded from membership on grounds of their occupation.
The members of the central committee gave in to
Naripokkho’s arguments in this regard and Ulka was made
a member. However, the real resistance surfaced at the time
of the first Doorbar elections in 2001 when Momotaz, with
encouragement from Naripokkho, declared her intent to
run for the President of the Dhaka Anchal3. Most members
reacted saying how can we work under the leadership
of a sex worker? Naripokkho organised an impromptu
discussion on sex work for Doorbar members attending
the general meeting. Only half were convinced. However,
what ultimately contributed to the swing in her favour
was when members from different regional committees,
where Momotaz had accompanied Naripokkho during her
internship, spoke up. These women knew about Momotaz’s
struggle and her leadership qualities. Momotaz won the
election and from that day on it did not matter whether
she was a sex worker or not.
How has the inclusion of intersex
people in the movement
influenced the politics of the
women’s movement in general and
Naripokkho in particular?
The initial reaction by Doorbar members to the inclusion
of Badhon Hijra Shongho for example was negative.
However, our insistence on abiding by the principle of non-
discrimination irrespective of sexual identity prevailed and
as Joya and Kotha and other hijras became familiar faces
in our meetings and functions the prejudice and fear that
many had gave way to acceptance and affection.
For many Naripokkho members it has opened our eyes
to the diversity in women’s lives and helped us accept
difference with compassion and empathy. Sex workers have
told us how the accidents of our birth, our marriages etc
have determined who among us became sex workers.
What have been the useful points of
learning for you and Naripokkho
in the course of your work? What
have been the possible deterrents?
The main learning has been how difficult it is to include
sexual rights as a legitimate part of our struggle for
emancipation, equality, etc. I suppose in a context where
women’s economic and political rights are yet to be
realised, any attempt to raise sexual rights issues is easily
sidelined as peripheral and or inconsequential. Besides, the
discussion on sexuality and sexual rights requires us not
only as part of the women’s movement but as individual
women to examine our own beliefs, practices and feelings;
something that is not easy for everyone.
Please tell us about Shonghoti
(alliance of sex workers) and
Bondhon (organisation of Hijras).
What are the strengths and
challenges of alliance building
in the South Asia region on
sexual rights? What do you see
as the scope for future work in
Bangladesh or collaboration with
other networks, organisations and
coalitions across the region?
Shonghoti represents a unique coming together of women’s
rights organisations, human rights organisations and
development NGOs in support of a near untouchable group
– sex workers. Of the 86 organisations that constituted
Shonghoti, only three had programmatic work with sex
workers. The rest shared the outrage at the manner in which
the government carried out the eviction of the Tanbazaar
and Nimtali brothels. The unifying factor was the human
rights violations. Many members of Shonghoti did not
support sex workers per se, but were prepared to defend
their rights as citizens. We were glad to have the numbers
whatever the reason. Moreover, I feel that it is when people
join a movement that they also learn to think differently
and I know a lot of people today who have changed their
earlier perspectives on sex work and sex workers.
At the time in July-August 1999 Shonghoti provided a
dynamic show of strength and extended a very powerful
voice to the demands of the evicted sex workers. Nowadays
Naripokkho is in the background, as there are many sex
workers organisations now and they have formed their own
network. Shonghoti’s role has also changed over the years.
I think what Shonghoti did was open many doors for the
sex workers organisations. Now they don’t need us to open
doors. I remember at the 1st International Anti-trafficking
Conference in Dhaka, I was sitting next to a sex worker
friend and she was annoyed that the proceedings were in
English which she could not understand. She asked me
to tell the organisers to provide simultaneous translation.
I said firmly that she had to do it herself. Hazera got up
and asked “Why have you invited us if the meeting is going
to be conducted in a language we cannot understand”? It
worked.
Sex workers themselves have learnt the skills of movement
work – how to write a press release, how to run a press
conference, how to organise a meeting, how to mobilise,
etc. Naripokkho provided some of that through the close
mentoring of Momotaz and the leadership provided in the
initial days of Shonghoti. Sex workers had to accompany
Naripokkho members to different government and NGO
offices, address press conferences, etc.
Our role has definitely changed. But we are there when
they need us. For example, when the brothel in Tangail was
attacked two years ago Samia Afrin and Kamrun Nahar
from Naripokkho rushed there with Doorbar members
from Dhaka. Local Doorbar members were already
involved with the sex workers in resisting the attack by
a self-appointed committee to ‘cleanse’ Tangail and many
sustained physical injuries during this attack.
Naripokkho and CARE have facilitated linkages between
sex workers organisations in Bangladesh and Durbar
Mahila Shomonnoy Committee in Kolkata, India and we
have participated in the big festival they organised for
International Sex Workers Day (3 March). We have seen
that this kind of exchange can be empowering for sex
workers who are not only at the bottom of our society
in ‘moral’ terms, but also restricted in their physical
movements. I remember Nasreen telling me about the
experience of pasting hand written posters in public spaces
in Narayanganj at the height of the Tanbazaar movement.
The few sex workers who joined the Naripokkho members
and Shonghoti activists in this protest activity were feeling
very inhibited and nervous as they had never done anything
so public! Many sex workers had never ventured out of
their brothels. The first time they joined the International
Women’s Day march in 1992 was a major breakthrough for
them. It opened up a whole other world for them and gave
them a sense of freedom and the feeling of a rightful place
in the women’s movement.
Undoubtedly, such alliance building be it within Bangladesh
as happened with Shonghoti or across borders gives strength
to one of the most marginalized groups of women to claim
a rightful place in society and their identity as citizens.
The kinds of alliance/exchanges that we have avoided even
though they have been instrumental in opening up space
for different/diverse sexualities are the HIV/AIDS and
anti-trafficking fora. The framing of sexual rights issues
either within a disease framework or a crime framework
makes it difficult to go beyond the discussion of abuse.
Please tell us more about
yourself. How did you start the
work you do?
I was a research student when I got involved with the
founding of Naripokkho. I was back in Bangladesh to do
my fieldwork for a Ph.D in Social Anthropology at the
University of Sussex, but got distracted by the beginning
of Naripokkho among other more exciting things. Later
in 1987 I took up a full time job as a development advisor
to Danida (Danish International Development Agency).
Except for a two year unpaid leave during 2001-2002
I put in more than the 40 hour week until December
2006 when I left for personal reasons. My engagement
with Naripokkho is on a voluntary basis. At the time of
joining Danida I made my involvement with Naripokkho
clear and whenever I had to use day time work hours for
something urgent at Naripokkho I either took leave or
compensated with overtime work. Because I was such a
workaholic I was putting in extra hours at Danida anyway,
so my weekends and evenings and holidays were frequently
used up for Naripokkho. For the most part I was lucky not
to have a ‘triple day’ as I lived with my mother and sister
who provided not only unstilted support for everything I
wanted to do but took care of many of the practical things
like household management and childcare etc. They were
also my greatest inspiration to carry on. My sister, of
course, was a comrade in the movement, a fellow fighter
in Naripokkho, my confidante and a mother to my son.
My mother and my sister made it possible for example to
provide shelter in our home to several sex workers after
the Tanbazaar eviction.
Whew! What about burn out?
Actually, now I realise the cost of those long hours of
work and how it has affected me in terms of burn-out. In
those days most people within the movement had to put
in that kind of work because of the necessity of having a
livelihood as well as being involved in movement work.
The NGO-isation of movement work has made it possible
for many to have paid employment in work that supports
movement building etc. I don’t know if this has been a
good development or not and whether we should stop
bemoaning the end of voluntarism and accept the practical
resolution between livelihood needs and one’s ‘mission in
life’. People are lucky if they can be paid to do movement
work.
Of course my job at Danida, a bilateral aid agency, and
my work in Naripokkho was not poles apart. As Adviser,
Women’s Development I was often able to advance
different parts of the women’s movement agenda. I was, for
example, instrumental in the design and installation of the
Government of Bangladesh’s Multi-Sectoral Programme
on Violence Against Women (MSP-VAW), a programme to
put in place comprehensive services for violence survivors.
I was able to use my position in a bilateral agency to
leverage the Ministry of Women and Children Affairs to
undertake the piloting of the MSP-VAW. The ideas and the
inspiration to do so came from being part of Naripokkho
and the women’s movement in Bangladesh and in particular
my acquaintance with Shanthi Dairiam of IWRAW Asia
Pacific through whom I had learnt about similar work in
Malaysia.
What keeps you going?
I don’t think I’m really going anymore (laughs)…
Naripokkho and I keep each other going…
1. Joya Sikdar is one of the founders of Badhon Hijra Shongho
and the current president of the Sex Workers Network of
Bangladesh
2. Evan Ahmed Kotha is also a member of Badhon Hijra
Shongho
3. Doorbar Network is at present organized in to 16 Anchals
(Regions) in Bangladesh.
Shireen Pervin Huq is an
active member of the women’s
movement in Bangladesh for
over 25 years and a founder
member of Naripokkho. For
20 years Shireen has worked
for the Danish development
assistance programme in
Bangladesh, first as the Adviser
Women’s Development and
later as the Deputy Programme
Coordinator for the Human
Rights and Good Governance
Programme. She has also done
training on Gender, Rights and
Development in Bangladesh as
well as other parts of the world.
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